Be The Bank S4 Ep4 - Be A Gun Slinger
On episode 4 of season 4, Justin Bogard interviews Jamie Bateman.
Key Takeaways:
Resources and links discussed
About the Host
Justin Bogard – Note Investor specializing in performing Residential Real Estate Debt. He finds deals and acquires them for his own portfolio as well as educates investors while walking them through the process of owning a Real Estate Note!
Connect with the Host:
Be The Bank S4 Ep4 - Be A Gun Slinger
On episode 4 of season 4, Justin Bogard interviews Jamie Bateman.
Key Takeaways:
Resources and links discussed
About the Host
Justin Bogard – Note Investor specializing in performing Residential Real Estate Debt. He finds deals and acquires them for his own portfolio as well as educates investors while walking them through the process of owning a Real Estate Note!
Connect with the Host:
Interested in real estate. How about wealth? Well, they go hand in hand and here you'll learn all about it, about it. Welcome to be the bank, a podcast where we discuss and debate the topics centered around real estate. Investing your host, Justin Bogard shares insights into investing in real estate to create real wealth and income for you and your family. He'll share stories of real estate investments done, right? Walk you through the process of owning a real estate note, and most importantly, educate you so you can be the bank, the bank. This is be the bank brought to you by bright path notes. Now here's your host, Justin Bogard. Everyone. Welcome to episode number four. I'm Justin Bogard. And do you wanna know why non-performing loans today are different than they were? Let's say before. COVID, that's kind of the topic of discussion we'll get in today with my guest, Jamie Bateman, that further todo, this letters brought to you, Bri bright path notes. Jamie Bateman. How you doing my friend?
Jamie Bateman:I'm doing well, Justin. Thanks for having me happy
Justin Bogard:To be here. You're welcome. Yeah, we're glad I could get you on quickly today to record this episode. And, um, Jamie, the listener doesn't doesn't exactly know who you are yet. And I'd like to kind of frame who you are. You're, you know, a friend of mine in the note business, obviously, and, uh, we've, uh, we've had some discussions and some emails back and forth. We haven't done a deal per se together, but I'm hoping we can do a deal in the future. And I just kind of wanna know how'd you kind of grow up into the note business real quick.
Jamie Bateman:So January 6th, 1976, I was born. Um, I'm just kidding. So, I mean, that is true, but yeah. Yeah. So I I've been, I've worked in the title in mortgage industries out of, out of college, I guess in the title space. That was my first quote unquote real job. Um, didn't have a cool what title insurance was or anything like that. But, um, so it got some experience in the, in the real estate investing space, I guess back then, um, from a outside of being an investor myself. Yeah. Um, learned a lot about title and recording and things like that, uh, was a settlement officer for a couple years off. So worked in funding and then I worked for a mortgage broker for a bit. Then I joined the military. Um, it's one of those things. I'll be honest. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I, I played lacrosse when I was in college and it was, you know, that was such a big part of my life. And then it's like, okay, now what? Um, so I did bounce around a little bit, but found my footing with, uh, the department of defense. And then in 2010 I bought my wife and I bought our first, uh, rental property and we actually have the same tenant there still. Um oh wow. Which is, yeah, he, uh, he's great. Um, the numbers on paper aren't phenomenal, but he, it is like, I almost forget about this, this deal because it's like, oh, that's right. That's yeah, we have that rental. Um, it's a condo and he pays on time every month and you know, it's, it's fantastic. Around 2015, I went part-time at my day job and I really I'd been listening to a lot of, you know, podcasts and doing a lot of reading on real estate investing and really what it was at that point, just to drill down quickly was my mindset changed. I was sick of my commute, I was sick of my job. And yeah, you know, a lot of your listeners can probably relate to of that. Um, but I decided to, instead of, I decided to look around and, and what, what are my strengths? What do I have going for me? What's my unfair advantage kind of thing. And I said, okay, my father's a real estate agent. My brother is a loan officer. I, I worked in the title industry. My wife did as well, different company. And so you start gaining confidence cuz you realize, wait a minute, I've, I've got a team here that I can work with. So yeah, fast forward my wife and I did a bunch of burs and we, we have a, a portfolio of rentals in, in Maryland and then around 2017, I started to really, I was like, okay, I, I understand this rental thing and what, what next? So we still hold those. I'm not a big, I'm a long term, you know, investor, but I really started to look into other other strategies and that's when I stumbled across notes and it was really tax leans or note investing and just doing research. I decided to go down the, the path path of, of note investing as you know, Justin, there's tons of different ways you can approach notes and we're gonna get into some of that. But since 2018, um, my I'll say 90% of my effort and, and energy for investing has been focused on notes. So, um, and then, and fast forward, here we are today. I, I manage a note fund. Um, we'll get into some of that. Um, probably gonna be opening a second fund later this year. Oh good. But, um, it's, uh, it really is notes are my focus. Um, we have the rentals, but note investing, uh, while there are downsides, uh, it is, it is really kind of what I live and breathe right now. So
Justin Bogard:That's awesome. Well, thanks for sharing all that too. And that's kind of cool to learn that your family was kind of, uh, in the real estate slash loan slash note business, really. So you kind of were meant to be in this position.
Jamie Bateman:Absolutely. It's, it's one of those like, you know, people talk about, oh, follow and I coached lacrosse after, after college and it's like, okay. You know, following your passion. Um, frankly, I, I don't know that that's always the best advice for career. Um, right. Uh, I realized that, yeah, that's a topic for another another day, but I think, you know, you gotta make money. And I think, um, I've realized since then that it's not about following your passion. It's about adding value and it's about where, you know, the market will tell you what value you're adding. And I think once you start adding value, once you start profiting, oh, Hey, I actually really enjoy this. Yeah, yeah. So you, you, you kinda build a passion there and then you can keep your, your hobbies as hobbies. Um, so I ended up kind of pivoting toward what, you know, owning my own business, which I love. And I actually just, um, just quit my day job. I'd gone, part-time in 2015 and I just, just quit my day job, um, you know, a couple months ago. So, um, but yeah, my family was definitely a big part of it. And you know, my father was more of a real, a retail real estate agent, not, not working with investors at ton, but, but I grew up in that, in that world. He, he he's been a realtor for, you know, decades. Um, so just kind of understanding certain things that they don't necessarily teach in school. Um, right. So here we are.
Justin Bogard:All right. So my first question I gotta ask you is where did you play lacrosse in college,
Jamie Bateman:Gettysburg college? Um, we were my senior year. We were number one in division three, but we choked so 1999, you, your audience, I'm sure they're gonna race to the keyboard and Google to check out my lacrosse career, right? Yeah. Gettysburg college. Um, it was a great school and that's where I met my wife, so. Okay. Um, I didn't choke there I guess.
Justin Bogard:Right. Yeah. You, you got the best, the best outta that, uh, college experience. Absolutely. Yeah. So you are based in Baltimore, Maryland and correct. You do all this investing from virtually, you know, from a virtual office, I assume. Absolutely. And so you, you, uh, disclosed to me kind of offline that you actually had an injury recently? Um, yeah. It was to your Achilles, right? Yes. Um, so is, is there a cool lacrosse story about that where you got back on the field and you were living the glory days and you just, yeah,
Jamie Bateman:No, no. Unfortunately it was badminton and uh, yeah, so, um, the manly sport of badminton, but I was on a court and I tell my brother-in-law, the score is still 14 to 11. I'll do that. Don't worry.
Justin Bogard:Yeah. What the game is on temporary, uh,
Jamie Bateman:Furlough. Right. It's taking a time out, but, um, it's, uh, it was, uh, if anybody that goes through this, I mean, it's, there are bigger issues in the world. Trust me, it's right. But it was not easy. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna sugar coat. It was not a, it was a struggle. Not only for me, you know, I couldn't drive for three months, so we have kids. Um, yeah, you can, you can kind of try to recreate that in your mind. Uh, but, but I will tell you, it was, it was a blessing in disguise and it did help me to slow down and, and, uh, kind of reevaluate and led me to quit. My job actually led me to have enough time to actually think about that. So, but yeah, the Manley sport of bad, right?
Justin Bogard:Yes. Right. The Manley sport of badminton. And then we, and then your wife was driving Mr. Jamie around, right.
Jamie Bateman:And the kids and everybody else.
Justin Bogard:Yep. Yes. I, she was superwoman, so hats off to her, which I'm sure she was superwoman before this. Uh, yes.
Jamie Bateman:She's actually helped me a good bit. And I mentioned the rentals, but she was, she's worked in notes, uh okay. In our note business, um, it really, it was until the pandemic, which made transition into the, the main topic. But, uh, she was working for Labrador lending, my, my note business. And then because of the pandemic, my, my son, you know, as many kids across the country were, were doing virtual schooling. She essentially became a, a homeschooler at that point. It just didn't, you know, he's got a, some challenges and, and some, uh, okay. Bill, um, assistance through the county school system that was not, uh, practically available anymore. And so my wife didn't have the time to help help with the notes anymore, but thankfully I had more time to devote to it.
Justin Bogard:Right. And then, because of your injury, I, I guess I brought that up to kind of, to Reem size the fact that, uh, the injury really didn't really affect your note business. Right. Because you can, you can work from anywhere and, and just because you were sidelined from walking around, doesn't, you know, you, weren't a professional lacrosse player at this point, you know, you're just, you're sitting at your desk and you're making money and you're reining it.
Jamie Bateman:No, you're absolutely right. I did get some calls to try out for the indoor Baltimore thought under, after college, but that's awesome, man. I'm just no, but, but you're absolutely right. The people in the note space, and look, I know on your show, you try to keep it real. You do keep it real. Yeah. Chris 70 and I have a podcast. We, we keep it real. Um, and you know, the gurus out there, we'll try to try to sell lots of they'll sell lifestyle. They'll sell certain things that may or may not be, um, really achievable through notes, being an active quote unquote active note investor. You're absolutely right. It, you can do, you can do this business from anywhere. I mean, literally if you have a laptop and a cell phone in with an, you know, laptop with an internet connection, you can do it from anywhere. There's no, no question about that. Um, you know, my home, my office is, is at my home, but, um, you it's location independent for sure.
Justin Bogard:All right, Jamie. So I wanna get into some topics for today. Well, mainly a main topic. And so I got into the business around 2006 team timeframe. And when I was in the business, the first thing I did was I went after non-performing loans because golly, gee, that's what I thought is what I wanted to do. And so boy was, I went, did I go through a learning curve at that time? And so I say that because when I was underwriting nonperforming loans at that time, Jamie, it was a lot different than under underwriting nonperforming loans today. And so that's the topic I, I wanna talk about with you. So in your experience, I think you said you around 2018 timeframe is when you kind of mainly focused on notes and I'm sure nonperforming was part of your poor, you've done other things, Jamie, we know you've done performing and then hypothe, partials, you know, things like that. Uh, but not performing is kind of where your fund is kind of focusing on today. Yes. And so with those non-performing loans that you were getting into, you know, we'll say before COVID, um, how, how was that underwriting file different then we'll say the post COVID area, which is, which is kind of right now what we're living in.
Jamie Bateman:Yeah. I think, um, the biggest difference is property values have yep. Have skyrocketed, right. And so even in that short period of time, that that we're talking about. Um, so I think, uh, pricing has gone for, so you'll see a lot of note sellers, uh, used to be, you know, and you can get into discussions on how you should price your non-performing notes when you're buying. And there are disagreements all day long and how you should do that. Um, but you know, if you're not factor, it, it used to be, um, U P was kind of, you know, that a percentage of U PPP is what you're basing your bid on U P B being, uh, unpaid principle balance of, of the loan. Um, you'll see more sellers now asking for you to bid, uh, based on the property value, because there's, there's a lot more equity in, even on non-performing loans. So nonperforming loan, the bar is not paying or they're way behind. Right. Um, but you know, 2008, 2010, you saw a lot of short sales cuz property values tanked. I think obviously in 2016 property values were significantly higher than 2008, but there still wasn't equity that we see now. And so I think because of that pricing has gone up and um, so you're, you're seeing, uh, more focus on the property itself and a lot of exit exiting through the property because, uh, that either, um, you're seeing a lot of borrowers and homeowners sell their property because there's equity there. So, uh, you know, I mentioned a few different things, but I think that's, that's one that really stands out is there's just the property value. The collateral value is higher than it was when I started in the non-performing note space.
Justin Bogard:Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. I, I couldn't agree with you more on how you evaluate loans before COVID and kind of after COVID. And so you're right. That U P B, that percentage of U P B is exactly how you, how you focus on that loan before COVID and, and if the property value was lower than the U P B, well, then you focus on a discount based on the, as value of that home. So let's say that the unpaid balance is a hundred thousand dollars that's owed on this non-performing loan, but the, but the house value is 75,000. So then again, you wouldn't be wise to get the discount off of the U P B unpaid personal balance. You, you wanna wanna focus us on the, as value of the house and give a discount, you know, uh, have your price be based on a percentage of the value of the home as is? Absolutely. Definitely not the case today, like you mentioned, right? Appreciation has gone through the roof. A lot of markets are super hot still today with very short inventory. And that could last for a while. We don't know, and some markets have made change. You may flip a little correct early. And so you're, I'm totally agreeing with what you're saying. And it, it is, to me, I think it's more pressure and stressful, uh, as a note investor to look at an NPL today and figure out how to price it than it was before COVID. I think it was a lot easier. Mortgages were underwater. Everyone go real estate was dropping and crashing. So discounts were, were great. And that's when they, the term came pennies on the dollar, right. For, for real estate, not performing loans. And that's definitely not the case today. So if you were really focused on nonperforming before COVID and you kind of took a break during COVID and then you got back into it, you were in for a world of difference, right? Because now you look at a loan and you're like, why would I pay more than the U PB on it? And you're thinking like, it just blows your mind, but then when you start adding all the arrearage counts and the corporate advances that are going on, there's actually a total legal balance, right? Yes. That is much higher than the U P B which is what you're really trying to focus on, because that can be your judgment if you take that to foreclosure. So it's just really interesting times going through right now. So Jamie, when you guys are looking at non-performing loans today, and obviously in your fund, you're probably buying them in pools and in groups as opposed to someone like me that maybe maybe buying like one or two at a time. Um, do you guys see a lot of borrowers still in the homes or do you see a lot of vacant homes kind of balance? Do you see there when you're looking at NPLS
Jamie Bateman:Today? Yeah. I mean, it's a great question. We are more open to looking there are, we are more open to looking at vacant homes. I mean, and, uh, so I, you're seeing, it's almost like, um, I don't know. I, I think we're gonna see more, more re and, um, frankly, this is my first fund. I, I, you know, it's not like I was running a fund in, in 2015 that I can compare it to. Right. Um, I think so to answer your question better, I think because deal flow has been a challenge. We have been open to expanding our buy box more. Okay. And that will include vacant homes, res even, and you're right. We do typically we're not buying one offs. Um, you know, it may be, there are smaller pools that we'll look at. We may buy, buy two or three NPLS at a time, maybe a, you know, a pool of five loans with, you know, four NPLS and one yeah. REO kind of thing. Um, but I think because pricing has gone up across the board deals have been challenging to find, um, Chris uses the term, you gotta be more of a hunter than a farmer right now. Yes. And, um, I like that the analogy, I guess, but, but, um, because of that, I think we we've personally just expanded what we're, you know, which states we're open to, which situations lot of bankruptcy, um, you know, I'm, I'm learning a lot about bankruptcy. Um, hopefully not, you know, my personal situation. Right, exactly. But, um, but it's hard to answer that question directly, but I think be because of the lack of deal flow and the pricing, uh, elevation in general, we've been open to expanding, you know, being open to, to more types of assets. Okay.
Justin Bogard:So it's kind of, you know, you have all these choices in front of you probably before COVID and you can be probably selective or picky about what you wanted to go after. Right. Because the inventory was more, uh, bountiful, right? Yes. And so now our inventory we're finding is not as, as great as it was, uh, before COVID was to say. So that makes a lot of sense how you have to open yourself up to be a little bit more adaptable yet to be a little bit more flexible on what you were before. Yep. But you still have to hold true to your rules. Right. So I'm sure you and Chris and you yourself probably have some steadfast rules of like, look, it's gotta pass this, this and these three things or else, you know, I'm definitely not gonna invest in it, but this fourth one, eh, I'm okay to be a little bit more flexible with it. So is that kind of where you're at today?
Jamie Bateman:Definitely. And actually, uh, it reminds me of a, um, um, this, these two are not in our, in our fund, but, um, Chris and I were working on, uh, he actually took the lead on this and he's, he's doing most of the work on this particular deal. Right. But, uh, I talked about this on our podcast recently where it, it plays to your, your point it's, um, you know, uh, you wanna play to your strengths. Right. And so absolutely. So these, these two, these two deals that, that, uh, I'm talking about, they're in Washington DC, where we have boots on the ground. Okay. We have a really strong attorney. Right. And, and who's very familiar with this type of situation, but the dollar that value was significantly higher than what we were used to. Um, and so, and there was, there was, it was actually a forced, uh, forced bankruptcy, which is not, not something I had personally dealt with before. So to your point, most, maybe three or four of the, the boxes we checked, we'd like, okay, good, good, good. But we are willing to kind of push our, our comfort level a little bit on, on this, you know, on a couple of other factors, if that makes sense. So I think, yeah, that tension as a, as a note investor never goes away. Um, you, if you get too comfortable, you're, you're not gonna buy deals. You're not gonna scale you. You've gotta take some risk. And I know you talked about on our show that, you know, being a little bit of a cowboy and you've gotta have that streak a little bit. You've gotta be able to, you know, you know what, I'm taking a, taking the, the risk here, I'm, I'm taking action. Um, but you don't want to go, you know, I'm not all of a sudden buying a second, you know, second mortgage commercial loan in, you know, California. Right. That, that is entirely out of my, my, uh, experience. Uh, you know, it's not something I would jump into. So
Justin Bogard:Yeah. I would say you don't wanna be a loose Canon, right? Yes. But you wanna be a gun Slinger. So absolutely. And I would say, you know, the difference is if you catch that little metaphor, there is that, you know, you look at a deal and you know, your, your basic criteria be like X, Y, and Z. Okay. I hit the box on those and four, five and six, eh, you know, I can live with a little bit of change on that, a little bit of more adaptability on it.
Jamie Bateman:Yeah. And the truth is just, we're quickly. You can't, even, if you only play to your, if you check all the boxes, you don't really know how that deal's gonna go anyway. That's true. So, you know, yeah. I checked all the boxes. Okay. Well, as soon as you bought that deal, your numbers on your calculator are wrong. Right. And you know, you can't control the borrower. For example, if you're trying to work with a borrower, I mean, it's so yeah, you have, and that's what I love about notes is you have, you still have options. You can't predict how it's gonna go, but you should be able to still profit from the deal if you underwrote it and did your due diligence. Well,
Justin Bogard:All right, Jamie, so we went through a big forbearance period, uh moratoria with yep. Uh, conventional loans after that the government, you know, helps produce and the big banks do. And so that caused, uh, kind of people to, to be able to get into this forbearance world. And I think there was, we'll just call it eight to 9 million loans that kind of went through this forbearance process and about, you know, 75 to 80% of them kind of exited through the appreciation of real estate to where they could fire, sell their house and get out from underneath this debt problem that they couldn't, um, satisfy. And then number two, it just got reperforming because quite frankly, they probably took advantage of a situation, or it just helped them out to get through what they were going through with COVID with maybe a job status or that situation they're able to refor, which is great for our country, because we don't have a ton of foreclosures coming through. So I say that because you and I both know the data and the facts to it. So with that leftover inventory, that's kind of in forbearance, that's probably gonna be turned over to probably we'll call the non-performing status. And maybe some of that stuff that was in limbo before COVID, that's kind of was in during COVID and couldn't get, uh, lost MI going through or couldn't get foreclosed and kind of moved into our post COVID area. So do you have an idea and I know you don't have a crystal ball of what we're gonna kind of see in the future, if we're gonna see, uh, you know, more of these type of non-performing loans, are we gonna see other lenders, big funds kind of foreclosing and stuff, or kind of, what's your take on what you see the flavor for 20, 22 playing out?
Jamie Bateman:I do think we're gonna have more non-performing loans. Okay. In 2022, um, I don't think it's gonna be, uh, uh, tidal wave, you know, by, by, uh, April of 2022. I, I don't think it's be, you know, I caveat no one knows, like you said. Yeah, no one knows. It's always, if we play this back in a year, I'm sure we're gonna be wrong. Right, right. We will have been wrong, but I don't see a way where there's, you know, not an uptick in, in non-performing loan inventory. Um, I do think it, another thing to your, your question about what's different between say 20 16, 20 17, and now I do think it's, we, we touched on it, but it's harder. It's harder to take down. You just, it's harder to find deals. So I do think going forward, if you're not running a fund, if you're, if you don't have access to capital, I it's gonna be harder even though we'll see an uptake in nonperforming inventory. I think it's still gonna be harder to compete, um, with the quote unquote, big boys, if you will. Yeah. Um, so, um, yeah, it's somewhat of a generic answer. I, I, but I, I think there's gonna be, I think there's opportunity on the horizon for sure. For the nonperforming, uh, note investor. Um, yeah. Uh, I, I don't know. What would you agree with that?
Justin Bogard:I would, I would say based on the data that I've seen and that, and that I have available to me, it looks like the non-performing loan, uh, inventory is going to grow. I don't think it's going to be a mass Exodus. Like it was in the 12, 13, 14 era where banks were just offloading as much as they could. I think this is gonna be a slow burn. I think it's gonna take a couple of years to burn through some of this inventory. So I agree with you what you're saying. I think there's gonna be a more uptick in not performing. I don't think that lenders are going to and say lenders, as in conventional, large lenders are gonna be going through the lost MIT process. I think they're gonna be offloading it to funds that can manage and take off pieces of that, uh, bad debt that they have. And they, I think they will work through a lot more lost MIT and, and then maybe sell off some other stuff. So I think we're gonna see, um, of all that bad debt, I guess what I'm trying to say, Jamie is I don't see a lot of, for closure happening of that subset. I see a lot more lost MIT happening for reperforming loans. And I think those loans will be looked at as premium loans once they're flipped to reperforming status. So I think I'm putting up caution flags, Jamie, on some of those not performing inventory that's coming through and I'll be participating in it for sure. But I definitely agree with you. I don't see a big wave coming through. I feel like is gonna be a slow burn.
Jamie Bateman:I would agree with that. Okay. Um, yeah. I mean, I know you and I, you, you operate more in the seller finance space and, um, but I think that that's, that's perfectly logical. Um, so yeah, and I know I'm, I'm being interviewed here, but I'm just curious, how do you, how do you see the seller finance space being affected?
Justin Bogard:So thanks for turning that around with me. So I see the seller finance space being affected more greatly than the conventional space. I say that because the lender that we work with will treat'em as sellers and we call them mom and pop sellers and they aren't sophisticated that that is like a no professional or someone that has been in lending business for a while. They were just smart enough to know, Hey, I wanna sell us and seller financing this house. I wanna be the bank. I wanna collect cash flow, but when things go bad, they don't know what to, and they more or less panic sets in and they wanna have a fire sale. So those, those borrowers don't get good opportunities. So we, we try to, to pick those opportunities up quickly and work with the borrower, if we can, otherwise situations kind of get bad pretty quick. So I see that situation being a lot different and, um, more, more pressing for me to go after, because that's the space that I like to be in. Uh, so that's kind of how I see it playing out. So I think it's gonna be, there's gonna be a lot more nonperforming as a seller finance year than, than there will as a conventional, um, Mor mortgage G. Yeah.
Jamie Bateman:And just real quickly before move on. Um, uh, we mentioned, uh, Dave and horn before we hit record, but, you know, I think I've been listening to different people as far as, uh, what's, what's the real estate market gonna gonna do and not just notes, but, and there's so many varied opinions end of the day. No one knows there are reasons. Um, I was listening to the bigger pockets podcast the other day, and about, there are reasons that to think that there's gonna be considerable softening and real estate prices in certain certain areas, for sure. But I think the more you, you gotta be committed to learning, educating, being aware of what's going on, and then you have more tools in your tool belt to be able to operate. Yeah. You know, with whatever happens and, and typically you have more warning than you do with stocks or other things like that when you're, when you're a node investor or real estate investor, you have have a little bit more warning. Oh, wait a minute. Yeah. It it's a much more slow moving thing. You can typically plan and, and react to. What's what you're seeing around you better as well. So, um, it's another reason I like, I like notes.
Justin Bogard:Absolutely. Jamie we're about running outta time. So we're gonna get to our kind of our last little segment here. And I kind of, I didn't tell I was gonna do this, but I like to hear some funny stories when it comes to nonperforming loans. So I'm gonna shoot from the hip here again and being a gun Slinger here. So I want to ask you, do you have something that's was memorable to you that was just kind of silly or funny or something happened? That was just you look back and you just laughing, going. I can't believe that this situation happened with a borrower. It was just, it was just odd or you ni funny. So you got plenty of non performers under your belt. So I know you got story or two,
Jamie Bateman:Well, if you, if you're okay with buying land contracts, you can run into some, you're gonna run into some stories for sure. I mean, I've had, I have a, a VA right now where there was a blight issue with the township she, she had, um, I call it the, the mattress vomiting RVs in her yard. I mean, the pictures are insane. I don't know what
Justin Bogard:I can picture it. Now, when you
Jamie Bateman:Say that, yeah, there are certain situations where you actually, you know, it's like, don't wanna know what's going on. Um, but I just want it cleaned up. Um, you know, and so I, I, I'm still dealing with this one and actually it's interesting. Uh, the two days ago I got within two hours, I got two different, I had my attorney on this particular case, contact me said, oh, your borrower show. So we're headed for the, the, the land con contract was forfeited. We're headed for eviction, unfortunately. And my attorney tells me, oh, your borrower showed up with a full payoff at the courthouse, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, wait, this is, this is awesome. Right. 10 minutes later. Oh, sorry. My attorney says, sorry. I sent that email to the wrong person two hours. I get the same thing from a servicer on a entirely different loan. But, um, where they sit that same thing. Oh, you have, please approve this full payoff. Yeah. I'm like this isn't my loan. So, uh, no, the wind outta
Justin Bogard:Your sale.
Jamie Bateman:Come on guys. But I mean, I've got some crazy stories. There's one, uh, in North Carolina. That's, I'm also still trying to wrap up that. Um, I mean, it's, I've got some voicemails I can share with you, Justin, but, um, yeah, not so funny per se. I mean, um, there have been certainly funny stories. I just, uh, you know, I've got a couple, couple, yeah, crazy. I mean, look, look, that's one thing I love about notes as well is every, every note has a story. It really does. So I mean, we could literally pick a note in our portfolio and I could, I could talk about it. Right. Talk about the borrower. Talk about the situation, right. Um, yeah. I'm trying to think of a funny one, but there's some definitely some crazy ones.
Justin Bogard:Yeah. So something that comes, I don't think I've shared before is there was a borrower and this is a performing loan mind you. Okay. And so this is always funny when you get these excuses or these stories from the borrower is you take, you kind of wanna take'em on their word, right. Because you're, you're a human there's emotion involved and you wanna believe them. And then, so we had been sending out, um, you know, things in the, the mail to this borrower, whether they were like, you know, HOA notices or, you know, bills to pay because they were a land contract. Right. Cuz we're getting all that info from the city and the county. And they were telling me that they didn't receive that in the mail and they go, oh, come to find out, someone was stealing the mail outta my mailbox
Jamie Bateman:That no, I, the, the, uh, the mattress vomiting RV borrower said the same thing to me actually. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't get that. You know, I, I
Justin Bogard:Only heard that one time before, so I thought that was kind of unique. That's funny how you had the similar story as well. Literally
Jamie Bateman:She, yeah. She said, I didn't, I never got that. My neighbors must be stealing my mail. Right.
Justin Bogard:Yeah. I don't know anyone in my life that has ever admitted or said that they would even go in someone's mailbox to just take their bills and stuff. I mean, it's just, it's just, it's just funny. So you hear these things sometimes listener from these bar, just like outrageous. You're just like what?
Jamie Bateman:And that, and, and that is one of the biggest challenges in this space is figuring out which borrowers to believe honestly, you know, because you don't know them very well. I mean, let's be honest, you know, and it depends everyone. I try not to talk to borrowers myself, but yeah. Trying to figure out who you can trust and what you can, you know, what's a delay tactic and what, what is something they're actually gonna follow through on there's? No, uh, it's not sci there's some art to that. Not mostly art, not science.
Justin Bogard:Exactly. All right. Jamie, you mentioned before that you have a, a podcast of stuff. I wanna give you a chance to plug, you know, your podcast. I know you have a very large Facebook group that people probably should be a part of. And then also, um, one of your newest ventures that I know is that you kind of invested into a servicing company I'd like you to, to plug those three, if you would, real quick. Yeah.
Jamie Bateman:Thanks Justin. I appreciate that. Um, so my company is Labrador lending. So check out Labrador lending.com. I've got a lot of free resources there, Chris 70, and I run a podcast that you've been on Justin and I recommend a listener go listen to that episode. It's the good deeds note investing podcast. And, uh, Chris started that years ago with Gail Greenberg and then kind of a spinoff of that is a Facebook group. You mentioned it's the notes and bolts of the good deeds note investing podcast, Facebook group. That's a tongue question there. I usually mess one up, but I think I nailed it. Um, and
Justin Bogard:So note notes and bolts, I think would probably be the key words to type into Facebook, to get the group
Jamie Bateman:Right? Yes, absolutely notes and bolts. And you know, we've actually had a lot of people, uh, uh, reach out to, to join the group since we did the, uh, cash flow expo this past weekend. Awesome. Um, there's definitely been an uptick in that it's, it's not a salesy kind of group. We're not spaming people with deals and if, you know, uh, it's, we're there to collaborate and help each other. So, um, certainly there are groups you can join to pay for from that or whatever, but it's a free, free resource. So, um, and then by loan servicing, you mentioned Justin, uh, by loan, servicing by investors for investors. Uh, Chris and I invested in this company, we brought on Shanta Duffy. Who's heading the day to day. She's kind of running, running everything and, and, uh, we have active loans there. We probably have BFI probably has 150 to 170 loans there. Now it's licensing is, is not a, it's an expensive and it's time consuming process. And we're doing things the right way. We're doing things above board. So, um, it, we're not a hundred percent where we want to be. I don't know if we ever will be because we're always trying to improve as a company. Um, but we are, we're actively seeking loans, uh, from note investors in the states that we're licensed in. And, um, so check us out, check us out. It's BiFIls.com,
Justin Bogard:BiFIls.com. All right. Thank you so much, Jamie. And thank you for being on our show today. We appreciate, uh, all the insight that you brought today. Great discussion. And, uh, thanks being, you know, one of my note, friends as well, and that's why you're on because you're a good guy. You do things the right way. So we certainly do appreciate that. Yeah.
Jamie Bateman:Thanks Justin. I really appreciate it. Hopefully your listeners got a little bit of value from it.
Justin Bogard:I'm sure they do. Well. I hope they do. Yeah. The four or five listeners here will definitely definitely create a buzz for us. Right? Absolutely. All right. That's all the time we got for today. Uh, Jamie, best of luck to you with that second fun that hopefully you're, you're gonna get into real soon here in 2022. Thanks for sharing all your NPL knowledge for us. And, uh, this episode was brought to you by bright path notes. Don't forget to go to the YouTube channel on bright path notes. So you can check out the video episode and check out. Jamie's cool little podcast room he's got going on there. So that further do Justin Bogard. guys till next time. Thanks for listening to be the bank. We hope you look learn something from today's show. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us. Plus check out our bright path notes channel on YouTube and follow us on Facebook and Twitter at be the bank and on Instagram at be the bank podcast. Be the bank is sponsored by bright path notes. Thanks again for listening.