Be The Bank S5 Ep7 - The Perfect Storm
On episode 7 of season 5, Justin Bogard and Richard Thornton debate what's going on in the banking industry today!
Key Takeaways:
Resources and links discussed
About the Host
Justin Bogard – Note Investor specializing in performing Residential Real Estate Debt. He finds deals and acquires them for his own portfolio as well as educates investors while walking them through the process of owning a Real Estate Note!
Connect with the Host:
Be The Bank S5 Ep7 - The Perfect Storm
On episode 7 of season 5, Justin Bogard and Richard Thornton debate what's going on in the banking industry today!
Key Takeaways:
Resources and links discussed
About the Host
Justin Bogard – Note Investor specializing in performing Residential Real Estate Debt. He finds deals and acquires them for his own portfolio as well as educates investors while walking them through the process of owning a Real Estate Note!
Connect with the Host:
Interested in real estate. How about wealth? Well, they go hand in hand. And here you'll learn all about it. Welcome to Be the Bank, a podcast where we discuss and debate the topics centered around real estate investing. Your host, Justin Bogart, shares insights into investing in real estate to create real wealth and passive income for you and your family. He'll share stories of real estate investments done right, walk you through the process of owning a real estate note, and most importantly, educate you so you can be the bank. The bank. This is be the bank brought to you by American Note buyers. Now, here's your host, Justin Bogard.
Justin Bogard:Hello again. And it is episode number seven of the Be The Bank podcast, season number five. I am your host, Justin Bogard. And today I'm gonna be talking with Richard Thornton. And we're gonna be talking about kind of the banking stuff that's been going around, what we've been hearing on the news and social media. And then, uh, also just kind of catch up on, uh, how we've been doing. Richard hasn't been on, uh, the last podcast, so let's see how he's doing. Stay tuned, man. That is just a really cool video. Isn't that? I
Richard Thornton:Like it. I like Where did you, where did you get those again?
Justin Bogard:Yeah, so for those of you that are listening on the podcast, um, we'd stream, we film this via our app called Streamy Yard, and we post this on our YouTube channel as well. So if you go to the American Note Buyers YouTube channel, you'll see all of our videos of all the podcasts that we do as well. And so, Richard, your question was how, how, how do we get that? Well, we basically do a lot of that stuff on fiber as, as you know, and I just found somebody on fiber and I was thinking about these graphics that we have and how can we make them animated and just make it look kind of fresh and new and cool looking. And sure enough, you know, there's somebody on there that just has templates ready and they just throw your logo in there and they can do all sorts of cool animations and stuff.
Richard Thornton:Well, this one, uh, and actually you've got three of'em done. They all look, uh, especially good. So, uh, congratulations on that. Good
Justin Bogard:Work. There's actually more of them. I did, I did about eight of them. Huh? I hadn't shown you all of them yet. I just showed you the first couple. Um, a lot of'em, we, there's a couple of'em won't use, but, you know, for those of you that wanted to see that little graphic interchange, uh, happen, it's pretty neat. It's like an architect type of theme to it, and it just kind of makes the graphic kind of appear out of nowhere, which is kinda cool. So.
Richard Thornton:Well, I can just put'em on, on my iPad and, you know, watch'em before I go to sleep at night.
Justin Bogard:Exactly. Yeah. That'll be mesmerizing. What
Richard Thornton:The heck? Right?
Justin Bogard:So you weren't on the last podcast that, that we recorded. Um, so I had interviewed Marco Barrio, and I'm not sure if you caught that episode or not, but it was a, it was a pretty good episode. Um, I did have to poke some spoon fun at you because you weren't on the podcast. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So I take it since you hadn't jabed back at me offline yet, that you hadn't actually listened to it.
Richard Thornton:True, true
Justin Bogard:<laugh>. So how have you
Richard Thornton:Been? Dunno, Justin. I have a lot of fun poking fun at each other. So it's, it's all, all in good humor and, uh, yeah. Keeps things light. We like it.
Justin Bogard:Well, today is opening day for baseball. So as we're recording this, we're recording this on, uh, March 30th, Thursday, March 30th, which is opening day for baseball, which is, uh, a fun day for me because I am a baseball fan. I'm actually wearing my Red Sox, uh, t-shirt today because the Red Sox had their opening game today. They lost. However, uh, I wasn't too happy about that, but with the new rule changes that I have going on in baseball, the game was played a little bit differently today. So it was interesting. It's gonna take a little bit of time for fans and players to get used to the new, new rule changes.
Richard Thornton:So I get where this is going now. I now having not watched that, that, uh, episode yet, um, I think you're probably making the reference to the fact that Gida, my significant other told me I had lost my man card because I didn't know anything about March Madness,
Justin Bogard:<laugh>. No, I didn't mention that in the podcast. Oh,
Richard Thornton:There's other reasons. Okay.
Justin Bogard:All right. No, I didn't. You'll have to play it back and listen to,
Richard Thornton:I guess, sir, I'm
Justin Bogard:Gonna have pick out episode number six and you'll see couple free jabs that I took on Richard, cuz he was, you're gonna have
Richard Thornton:To make me work. Geez,
Justin Bogard:<laugh>. So that's, that's got new with me. So I understand that you just came back from a cabin that you rented out in the, uh, the mountains for you. You couldn't do any skiing cuz you just had knee surgery and stuff, but that's where you guys go to ski.
Richard Thornton:Uh, we do, uh, we actually have a group cabin, uh, at, uh, south Lake Tahoe. It used to be the old, um, uh, fire lookout for, for the entire South Lake region. And so it's got a wonderful view. Um, and we like to go up there, especially midweek, uh, we've gotta improve the internet a little bit as, as you know, that's why I'm sitting here in my office today and not doing it up there, which, which, uh, should be, uh, coming, uh, soon. Um, but, uh, yeah, we had a complete whiteout on Tuesday. We got three feet of snow up there and you literally could not see more than two feet in front of your face. Hmm. And the skiing up there is fantastic right now. So, um, GI koki, I couldn't, cuz my knee's not quite recuperated yet, but those of you who want to consider knee surgery, uh, you know, I'm glad I did it, but it's not easy. Uh,<laugh>
Justin Bogard:There, there's a, here's a few times. Richard was a little outta sorts because, uh, medicine he had to take was making him act a little funny.<laugh>.
Richard Thornton:Wow. Really? Yeah. Very little funny. Very funny. Yes.
Justin Bogard:<laugh>. Right on. So, Richard, um, there has, uh, you and I haven't talked about this openly on, on Air yet, so I thought this would be a good time to do this. And what I've heard on the news, what I've seen in social media and I've heard, um, the grumblings from other people was, you know, there is a banking crisis going on right now mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And so I just, I know you had done some research about this and I kind of wanted you to, to take, um, take us down the path of setting the table here to discuss kind of what is information is out there and let us kind of disseminate it.
Richard Thornton:Okay? Yeah. I mean, for all of us who are, uh, lay laypeople in the finance world, and like I said, that's probably most of us, uh, I mean, I've got a degree in finance and you know, maybe some of you others do also, but let's face it, we're not in the banking world. Um, what we could, uh, term this current, uh, crisis, um, as is, uh, sort of a perfect storm. It's not one of one big blockbuster event. Like say the last recession was where mm-hmm.<affirmative>, uh, we had, um, a whole lot of subprime loans, uh, and that took us down. Um, this is, uh, several different factors. Uh, one is, uh, the banks underestimating the effects of the Fed's interest rate hikes. The other one is the cratering of the cryptocurrency market. Another is the market upset by Russia's war on the Ukraine. And finally, uh, the credit suis and some of the other European banks, uh, made overly aggressive investment in hedge funds to try and increase their, uh, profitability and credit suis is being accused, has been accused by the s e C of allowing money laundering and other, uh, nefarious accounts to occur under their noses in their bank. And you combine all that. And that's leading us to where, uh, I think, um, we're going. So we can take just a, just a second and sort of go through, um, some of these. Okay. You think that, um, a lot of the bankers, uh, would know that, uh, since in March of 20, uh, 22, the Fed said, we're going to raise rates. We haven't raised rates for a long time, but we're going to start to do it and do it steadily. You would think that they wouldn't invest in bonds because Justin, if you invest in a bond at say 4% and rates move to 6%, what happens to the value of that bond?
Justin Bogard:Well, it's lost its value. Right?
Richard Thornton:It's lost value. That's right. So they, at that time, uh, especially Silicon National, Silicon Valley Bank and First Republic were flesh with, uh, monies coming out of Silicon Valley and the startups. So they like, um, supposedly good bankers took all that money invested in bonds, which they knew were gonna be devalued because the Fed had said, we're raising rates. So one has to wonder why they did that. And that is actually part of investigations that are going on now. But at any rate, they, uh, invested that money and got whatever return they thought they were going to get. Uh, when the general market got wind of this, and they knew that rates were going up. A lot of the, uh, groups that had sponsored a lot of the, um, well, a lot of the groups that invested in startups said, you'd better get your money outta Silicon National Bank and these places because they're overextended. This caused a good old fashioned run on the bank. Well, that meant that Silicon Valley Bank had to now sell their securities at guess what a loss. So it meant that they didn't have enough money to cover all of the, um, depositors, uh, deposits and the had to be taken over by the Fed, which in fact made up for all the shortfalls. So that was one big thing. The other thing was the fall of the crypto market. Uh, as I think probably most of us know, uh, FTX was, uh, one of the biggest players in the crypto market, uh, and was taken over or not, was actually, uh, went under because it was accused of all sorts of, uh, nefarious activities. Um, overin investing, uh, in some places actually falsifying reports, et cetera, et cetera. And that caused the, the crypto market to crater well, uh, silver Gate and Signature Banks were two of the largest banks dealing with the crypto market. They subsequently were in the same boat. Oops, guys. Now everybody is, since there's a panic in the market, is trying to cash in on their crypto, they don't have enough money to cover their deposits. So they're in the same boat for a different reason. Then Silicon National Bank. Third thing is Russia's war on the Ukraine. Uh, there's no one factor there, but, um, we all know that, uh, uh, gas prices, uh, have gone up. Um, Europe was in a great, um, turmoil about not having enough natural gas to heat their homes. Uh, and all sorts of prices have gone up because of that. So you've got just a whole lot of disruption in the, in the market. This kind of, this isn't happening all at once, but it's all within a sh short period of time. And you can see that the markets are kind of getting kind of, kind of nervous here. You know, people going, wait a minute, what's going on? Well, credit Suis and it's wise, um, uh, shall I say in Infinite Wisdom, decided to in, uh, 2021 along with a bunch of other banks, um, invest, um, in a large family, uh, hedge fund called Archos. Archos. Overinvested couldn't cover its margin calls. The brokerage community got, um, nervous. They started to run on Archos, archos went under Credit Suis, uh, had a five and a half billion dollar loss on that, as did several other banks. And you can say, well, what's the big deal about Credit Suis? Well, the problem is, is that a whole bunch of other banks had invested in Credit Suis and now Credit Suis was no longer credit worthy. And Credit Suis is what's called a Money center bank, which means that there are one of 30 banks around the world that make the money work. When we send fed wires, when we do all these things, they're the backbone of that system. And all of a sudden, if your backbone is getting pulled out, guess what? You've got problems. And the last little thing, uh, that I'll mention so I won't bore you anymore, is the fact that the s e c started to look at credit squeezes bank accounts and said, you know what guys? We think you're allowing money laundering and you're allowing, uh, a lot of guys from Columbia and other, other governments to launder money through your bank. And lo and behold, uh, they were caught and in fact they are being, um, prosecuted thus. So all those things combined are sort of a perfect storm that's leading to the bank crisis that we are in, and I think is only going to get worse.
Justin Bogard:Okay. That's a lot.
Richard Thornton:That's
Justin Bogard:A lot. So I, I'm glad that you had mentioned several of those things that I, I hadn't heard of before. I haven't really dug into the Swiss, the Swiss bank, um, Swiss bank information that you had. I I had just read more or less the stuff about svb Silicon Valley Bank and how they're buying treasury notes at 1% and trying to cash out of those set notes. And they can't, they can't, they can't get enough money out of what they invested in to be able to pay their depositors back.
Richard Thornton:Right. I mean, uh, you know, um, Silicon Valley Bank would've been best off just to do nothing if they had just kept the money in their coffers a dollar for dollar. Uh, if you put in$10 and you ask for$10 back out, you're good. Yeah. But, but they invested it and, uh, invested 10 and got back eight. Oops.
Justin Bogard:So guess who bails them out?
Richard Thornton:Yes. It's your tax dollars at work.
Justin Bogard:Several banks bailed them out.
Richard Thornton:Right. But the but the Fed guaranteed all of the Yeah. And, and, uh, the
Justin Bogard:Uninsured ones too.
Richard Thornton:Yeah. Something that I didn't know. So I bank at First Republic and I was talking to my rep there and she was saying, oh yeah. I said, you'd be amazed all these people that have 10, 20 million in the bank mm-hmm.<affirmative>, they're all splitting them into all sorts of different names that they have control of their kids and everything like that. All hundred,$250,000. So they're all guaranteed by the F D I C. And I thought, holy smokes. I had no idea.
Justin Bogard:Yeah. I, I think what the government's gonna learn from this is that, number one, the Fed's probably gonna raise their insured, uh, amount accounts probably to a much higher amount than 250. But yeah, I can see a lot of wealthy people doing that, splitting their money into multiple, multiple accounts so that they're, they're federally insured for that two 50. But I did hear that the Fed, when I read this morning, some stuff that the Fed was from svb, they're ensuring everything. They're not just, they're insuring the uninsured
Richard Thornton:Amount. Yeah, yeah. They, they, they, they want to keep the, the system, they're, the decision they've made is, is, uh, it's less painful for us to just basically absorb all the loss that it would be if we let everybody go down. And, you know, that's a, that's a rational decision. I can't, I don't, you know, blame them one way or another for that. They're, they're smarter about that than I am
Justin Bogard:<laugh>. Well, yeah. It, it seems like no matter what our safety net is always the government just printing more money. Yeah. Somebody else, somebody else billing it up. But the other banks are, you know, they're making an investment. It's not like they're just giving them money. They're making the investment in those banks and just, you know, propping them up so that they don't, they don't collapse. Cuz the consumer loses in the end, right. Not the bank.
Richard Thornton:Yeah, exactly. Consumer loses Exactly. One way or another the consumer loses because we've got higher rates somehow, or we're having to pay more taxes to make up, or you know what, we don't have enough money for this, that, or the other whate, whatever it is.
Justin Bogard:So how do you see this getting worse than it is right now with the gloom and doom news that you just told me?
Richard Thornton:Well, unfortunately, I mean, one thing I find interesting is that, as I read through a lot of this stuff, uh, there were people that saw foresaw this, you know, there were people who early on said, Hey guys, Silicon National Bank is, valley Bank is, uh, is making investments that are going to be underwater. And, um, you know, credit Squeeze is doing this and that. So as with the previous recession, there's a lot of people who are just being ignored, it should be paid attention to. And I don't quite know why that that happens, but what most of the pundits seem to be saying is that we're in a crisis, it's probably only going to get worse and it's probably gonna end up in a recession sometime soon. That's the gist of it.
Justin Bogard:So what does Richard think?
Richard Thornton:Uh, I think I'd have to agree with that because the, the, um, the evidence is just so o overwhelming. We, you know, the system can only take so much. Yeah. And this is what I call sort of the nick effect. You can, you know, you can die by a thousand nicks. No, no. One big cut is worse enough or bad enough to, to kill you, but you get a thousand of'em and all of a sudden you don't have any blood pressure. Yeah. Um, so I think the Fed can only do so much. Um, on the American side, uh, my understanding is, is is that the gas crisis, um, natural gas crisis in Europe was actually, uh, resolved by the fact that the US and other, um, countries shipped boatloads and boatloads of, of gas there, natural gas there, and basically made up for the shortfall, which is amazing to me. But still, you got so much, you got so much, um, going on the negativity in the markets. I just don't see how it, maybe it's not recession, maybe it's just a, a total tightening. One of the big things that's gonna happen is that rates are gonna stay up and tightening is going to occur. Uh, and so it's gonna make it better for private mortgages. I don't know about Absolutely. I don't know about you and your portfolio, but I've actually been dismayed because equity's been up. Um, values have been up and I've probably had now five different refis on my mortgages that I never thought would be refi that were nice, you know, easy peasy loans. Well, they're all 9%. These people are re refining at three and you know, I'm sol um, that activity's gonna stop.
Justin Bogard:Yeah. I don't see the rates moving at all as far as interest rates for the consumer, I think they're already set where they should have been anyways for a while. But I agree that the lending is gonna get really tight again because they, banks are going to be extremely conservative about how they lend money and who is gonna be a, uh, a worthy borrower. And so that's, like you said, it's only gonna make our private mortgage seller financing, owner financing business even more popular for real estate people to, to do, because people are still gonna need money to buy houses. The interest rates are not gonna go down. They're not gonna be able to afford as much of a house as they want because of where the rates are at and what their money can't afford. So the the, um, the homes that are 150 K and under, that's really gonna be the super sweet spot for these private mortgages. And that's probably where we wanna land.
Richard Thornton:Yeah. I think it actually is going to start to, um, we're starting to see more, uh, well, I'll call small, smaller commercial, uh, anywhere from the 1 million to to$5 million category, uh, commercial mortgage, uh, needs also. And there'll probably be five year loans. You and I haven't talked about this. Yeah. Um, but I've actually gotten three or four inquiries lately about would we in fact either make and or, um, by a commercial loans like that.
Justin Bogard:So, so this, this banking stuff, it extends more than just the consumer. This, this is going to the Senate and the house. Like they have to make decisions on if they're gonna raise that debt ceiling or not because they have to print more money, or the Fed can't, can't bail out anymore. Right. They, they, they can only bail out so much in these other large banks. You know, CP Morgan, um, you know, Goldman Sachs or whoever the, the, the big ones are Bank of America. They can, they can help you know, the situation as well, which they have been, um, you know, feeding money into some of these banks and stuff to help stand them up. But what I'm getting at Richard, is that I, I can see this being stress to the economy and I can definitely agree that the economy will be, um, the stock market will be even more volatile than it is right now. And so what that does is, is for people that are consumers that are wanting to invest their money, number one, you know, our, our title of our podcast is be the Bank, right? Right. So we're saying all these negative things that are happening with the banking industry, but that's not really what we're doing. We're trying to be like a bank as a metaphor, not actually be a bank. Now we're saying is you want to be a lender. You don't want to keep all your money in that bank. You wanna put it out there in a, in an asset, a hard asset like real estate to where you're getting income from that real estate and that real estate is strong. Right now it's only getting stronger because we're, we're going back to more of a seller's market again right now in, in the industry as it stands. So, um, it it's even, it's even more obvious to me that people should really be hyperfocused on real estate as an investing tool with their retirement if they haven't thought about it already, uh, with all this stuff going on. Cause I think, I think you're right, Richard. I think we will dip into a recession. I don't think it's going to be catastrophic at all. And I'm not gonna sit there and say, no, I'm not.
Richard Thornton:It's more of a
Justin Bogard:Dip. Yeah. It's, it's just gonna take a step back. And I think 2023, uh, is just gonna be a year where things are just gonna kind of slide down a little bit. It will get back on its feet because the government always has a way, always has a safety net, right. That they can go in there and stimulate the economy and they, they can do other things. Um, but even some of the bigger CEOs like the Elon Musks and the other, the other big time CEOs are all saying, like, right now, um, in, in their work, because they're heavily in the market and stuff, they're, they're saying they're holding their cash, they're waiting for that right time. They understand that by, you know, maybe quarter one, quarter two of 24, that's really where they're gonna start getting in there and start buying things so that they can, they can, you know, start elevating the economy. Cause I think that's gonna be a low point for a lot of the stuff in the market. Uh, so that's kind of what they've said that they're doing. And I've only heard this like the last couple of days, just, you know, off of, uh, maybe not a reliable source, it's just off of some interviews off of that. I've heard off of feeds on social media and stuff. But that kind of makes sense because they're kind of seeing the light, they understand that we're going through just a weird time right now and everything is cyclical that we do Right. In real estate and the economy and stock market. And so this is just the time to where things are just gonna dip a little bit and then it's gonna, it's probably gonna take off pretty well in 24 and 25 to be, you know, start trending in a, we call it a bull market or it's trending in the right direction. Right. And we're just dipping into a bear market right
Richard Thornton:Now. Yeah. And I agree with that. And also, you know, we haven't really talked about this on our own separate portfolios, but I think you've heard me mention a couple times out of, out of all the notes that I've purchased, I've only had three defaults. Yeah. Um, and, uh, knock on wood, uh, you know, I haven't lost money on any of them. Uh, I think I may have one that I'm gonna lose a couple thousand dollars here next year, but there's a lot of security in that. I mean, we're, we're so below market in terms of our loan to values and everything like that. I've got, you know, one right now going on in Illinois that, uh, very sadly, the woman was disabled. She rented some financial problems and she's signing the house over to me. But, you know, I'm not gonna lose any money and I'm probably gonna make a thousand dollars. But yeah, not, not that. That's a, the point is I'm not losing anything and nor will my
Justin Bogard:Investors. You had a safety net and it wasn't the government
Richard Thornton:Yeah, exactly.
Justin Bogard:The safety net was at real estate. And that's what's beautiful about what we do, so, right. It, it's, it's, it's an even better time to be managing a fund like we're managing. Uh, it's even, it's even a better time to be in real estate. Uh, if you don't wanna be the fix and flipper of the wholesaler, I completely understand. Or even the landlord, but, uh, making passive investments and having everything secured and backed by real estate, it's, this is really a great time to be in it. Um, real estate is just always gonna appreciate, we did have a anomaly, you know, what, 13 years ago when, when we had that financial crisis. But you, you did a great job of explaining that in the beginning of, uh, when, when you went into your research, um, a few minutes back about saying that was a different type of problem. That wasn't any, any, um, any doing of, of, of, you know, um, what's going on right now with, with people, you know, money, money laundering, that, that had a lot to do with, you know, lending being too loose and rates just going in the wrong direction. And then, you know, it was a snowball effect. And then before we knew it, we had way too many defaults and then everything just kind of
Richard Thornton:Right. I mean, the only, the only similarities really were that there were some people out there who were, uh, saying, we have a problem early, and people weren't listening. And so that's, I always find that curious as to, uh, when people are making a lot of money, they tend to not listen to somebody saying, um, there's a problem here,<laugh>. Yep.
Justin Bogard:You're
Richard Thornton:Exactly right. I dunno if it's a straight greed or what it is, but Well,
Justin Bogard:They, they have blinders on, right? It's a tractor beam. Yeah. They're, they're in a tunnel that says, oh, this is, this is a super speed highway. I don't have to slow down at all. Cause I don't have to get off my exit for another a hundred miles. Right. They, they don't see all the noise, the blur that's going beside them. And so that's, that's, you're exactly right. That's what happens. Right. But we all do it. We all, we all miss the boat, um, you know, on the opportunities to buy crypto when we could have, when we could have bought it. Not that I was going to, but that was an opportunity to buy it because you knew that it was, it was gonna go up and you knew, also knew it was gonna crash as well. Um, so I feel sorry for the people that, you know, did invest in that and they, hopefully they can recover from that with something different. But yeah, it's just an interesting time that we're in.
Richard Thornton:Yeah. So the ultimate investment though that I've researched that this comes under the category of I wish, wish I had. Yeah. Yeah. So I was very well employed in making a decent amount of money. Not that I'm not now, but in 1985, I figured out that if I had just bought Apple Stock in 1985, which was selling for about 11 cents a share because Steve Jobs was just getting kicked out and, and blah, blah, blah. So I would've had to have been a contra cyclical investor that with a stock splits and everything else, that today, that investment would be worth almost 120 million.
Justin Bogard:Wow.<laugh><laugh>. Oops. That'll frustrate you. Yeah,
Richard Thornton:Yeah. No, you can't, you know, shoulda would've coulda. But, uh, it was an interesting piece of little research I did.
Justin Bogard:Yeah. That, that's the funny thing about being in the stock market. You can, you can be, uh, extremely wealthy all of a sudden, or you can lose it all.
Richard Thornton:Yeah. I mean, this case, you know, you had to really believe in Apple. Yeah. Uh, and they had a two for one stock split, and then several years later they had a seven for one stock split. And I don't know if you've ever been through any stock splits. I, I have, but wow, that can increase your value, you know, in two or three years. Uh, a whole lot. Um, but they don't happen very often. And it's, uh, it's like rolling dice. It's not like what we're doing where you've got a lot more steady Eddie, and, and there's a lot to be said
Justin Bogard:For Yeah. We're, we're doing is predictable and it's, it's really secure.
Richard Thornton:Yeah. There's a tortoise in the hair and, you know, everyone
Justin Bogard:<laugh>, right. Tous in the hair. Awesome, Richard. Well, this was a good conversation today. Thanks for doing all that research and bringing light to, uh, what's going on with, with the banking crisis and what could happen and, and what kind of maybe we both project in the future. So this is episode number seven of the Be the Bank podcast sponsored by American Note buyers. And we will catch you on the next episode. See
Richard Thornton:You. All right. See you later. Bye-bye.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to Be the Bank. We hope you learned something from today's show. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us. Plus check out our channel on YouTube and follow us on Facebook and Twitter at Be The Bank and on Instagram at Be the Bank podcast, be The Bank is sponsored by American Note Buyers. Thanks again for listening.