Be The Bank
Be The Bank
005 - Vegas Baby
Unlock the secrets of savvy real estate investments with the wisdom of Vanessa Gomez LaGatta, former high-flyer in the investment banking sphere, now a trailblazer in the seller financing notes niche. Her banking prowess, coupled with a firm grasp on the complexities of real estate notes, promises to guide you through the labyrinth of loan-to-value ratios and beyond.
Embark on a journey through the landscape of investment opportunities with Vanessa's expert navigation. Learn how strategic partnerships and meticulous underwriting can not only safeguard your investments but cultivate enduring relationships with borrowers. Vanessa's approach to fast funding and the perks of repeat borrowers illuminate a path to financial growth. Whether you're an established investor or just starting out, this episode is your gateway to understanding the nuances of being the bank and redefining wealth creation through real estate.
Resources and links discussed:
- Videocast on our YouTube Channel
- ANB Funds Website - https://anbfunds.com
About the Host:
Justin Bogard – Note Investor specializing in performing Residential Real Estate Debt. He finds deals and acquires them for his own portfolio as well as educates investors while walking them through the process of owning a Real Estate Note!
Connect with the Host:
Facebook - bethebank
Twitter - bethebank1
Instagram - bethebankpodcast
American Note Buyers - https://anbfunds.com/
Monthly Broadcast - https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzc944w1xydt5aLDrrEPHJhdJeDkBjjD4
Interested in real estate. How about wealth? Well, they go hand in hand, and here you'll learn all about it. Welcome to Be the Bank, a podcast where we discuss and debate the topics centered around real estate investing. Your host, Justin Bogard, shares insights into investing in real estate to create real wealth and passive income for you and your family. He'll share stories of real estate investments done right, Walk you through the process of owning a real estate note and, most importantly, educate you so you can be the bank. This is Be the Bank brought to you by American Note Buyers. Now here's your host, Justin Bogard.
Justin Bogard:Hey listener, this is Justin Bogard here on the Be the Bank podcast. This is season six, episode number five. Today I have a person that I don't know very well, but I know who she is and we've had conversations and we hung up before with her and her husband, and so she has a very strong background in banking and has been on the note scene for a little bit now and she's definitely somebody that brings a lot to the table and she's going to have a lot of cool things to talk about. We're kind of going to focus our conversations today on kind of underwriting, as it were. So some of you may not have that skill set as a strong skill set, and so this will be a fun conversation today. So stay tuned and welcome to the show. Vanessa Gomez-Lagato. And it's funny when you start talking in these podcasts and all of a sudden you get something in your throat and you're just like, wow, this is the wrong time to clear my throat.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:I hear you. I have a glass of water just in case.
Justin Bogard:Yeah, yeah, I had to grab something a little bit warm before we got on the show today, just because today it's not cool, but it's like I don't know dreary, it's like dark and cloudy and I just, I don't know you feel cold, even though it's not cold outside. It's actually like 65 degrees outside.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Oh wow. We're actually in Vegas at the structured finance Vegas conference, so it's a little chilly outside, surprisingly.
Justin Bogard:Vegas baby. That's why I think every time someone says Vegas, Vegas baby.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:It's been good. It's been good.
Justin Bogard:Awesome. Well, thanks for being on the podcast today. I know this is your first time being on our show, but probably not on others. I'm sure you've been on the podcast before. But, vanessa, the audience that we have here today, they don't know you and they would like to know you and just kind of, I wanted to set the table a little bit and kind of let us know kind of your background and how you kind of gotten to sell our financing notes, and then we're just going to carry on the conversation there.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Oh, no, sounds great. But first thank you for having me on the podcast, justin. I'm excited to be here today and just share a little bit about my background. So I started my career at Credit Swiss, which is a bulge bracket shop, rising up to director in the investment making division and focusing on leverage finance. What I'd worked on were large, complex leverage facilities for financial sponsors and corporates throughout the United States. I did have a specialty in the energy space. From there I went to go work for an energy public company, moving to Texas from New York City and from there it was a very active company. We did a lot of complex M&A transactions as well as tapping the capital markets, and ultimately I took over as CFO until we sold the company a couple years later. After becoming CFO. Then I did a little stint in the turnaround or structuring space and then I joined another energy-related company, sdfo, and I took them and helped them emerge out of bankruptcy. So after go ahead, sorry.
Justin Bogard:Let's just say the question. You say energy and I'm making assumptions here, but specifically what you talked about in energy is this like gas, electric, water type energy, like what?
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Absolutely so. It's called an exploration and production company. So what we did is we drilled wells into the ground and extracted gas and oil. The company I worked for specifically was more gas-weighted than oil-weighted, and we had production in Texas, some in Colorado, Canada and some up in Alaska.
Justin Bogard:Yeah, Texas definitely makes sense, Drilling right.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:There's a lot of drilling, especially around the DFW.
Justin Bogard:Yeah, I've been to Dallas many times I know you have too and you live close to there but I never see any oil rigs or wells until I get really far away from the city, if I'm driving somewhere else or going to a different location. But you actually see them in the Dallas metro area.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Oh yes. So if you drive actually from Dallas to Fort Worth off of 30, there's different wells that you can see and what you'll see? You won't see the drilling rig anymore, you'll just see the pad that has all the production equipment that is the result of the wells being drilled. But there's production all over the metro area and what's interesting is in the energy space they've gotten more and more sophisticated as the years have gone by. It's been several years since I worked in an oil and gas company. But what they do is they drill laterally, so they drill down, and diagonally and they can go from miles upon miles and so you can actually reach quite extensive under residential homes or businesses, lakes et cetera, and so it's actually pretty. It's very sophisticated and complex and I don't necessarily think the media talks about the technology behind it.
Justin Bogard:But it's pretty impressive. It sounds amazing. It still fascinates me that there's oil underground and we haven't ran out of it yet. I'll keep tapping into it with all these countries that always are going after the oil. It's just fascinating to me. I'm sorry I jumped in and let you finish your history here.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:No. So after my stint and a couple of public companies, I decided I wanted a different kind of challenge, and so we started an investment platform which is all of CoVe Partners, and it's an investment platform that invests in opportunistically and our real investment strategy is deploying capital and downside protected assets with equity, like returns or attractive risk adjusted returns. So that really started earnest about three and a half years ago. Shortly after kicking off the platform, mike left his corporate world and joined, and now we've both been active in investing in the single family space as well as and in that space we originate and buy private money loans and then, as well as, investing in the secondary residential mortgage loan pools, which has been, more recently, our big focus.
Justin Bogard:So you mentioned downside, downside, on the type of investment that you go for. What is the main downside that you're looking for in investment?
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:So what we look at for investment and I'll use real estate because it's a good example, right? So right now there's 84 million mortgages in the US. Those mortgages have a debt of $12 trillion, and then if you look at the value associated with all of those, if you look at the average home price in the US, what you find is that the loan devalue in single family residential is almost 50% loan devalue, and so when you take a step back and you think about this asset can lose 50% of its value before the lenders start experiencing pressure on getting their capital back. There's a lot of cushion there, and then, in particular, on buying in the secondary loan market. We don't buy at par, we buy at a discount to par. So our investment to our, the amount of capital that we've deployed based on the value, is even lower than the loan to value, and so there's even further protection from that, and that's very attractive for us.
Justin Bogard:You said that very well and I don't know why more people don't get into real estate just for that reason, whether they don't get the note specifically or not. But that's just. That's just a great way to put it.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Absolutely it's. It's when you talk to people and you explain it to them, just as I just did now, they're like, oh, that's super interesting and and I don't think people really put two and two together Because there's so much equity value in the residential market space right now. We're also seeing a lot of new products coming to market, which is very interesting too.
Justin Bogard:I think what? What rings the bell in people's ears, the way that you said it which I like, the way that you said it is the 50% loan to value already right there. So they're like, oh, so this thing is worth 100,000. The borrower has 50,000 of equity, but you're not paying $50,000 for the note, like no. So overall, you know your, your investment to value is very significantly lower risk than what you think. When you're investing in just a traditional property and let's say you get the property for, you know, 85 cents on the dollar. If you buy it straight out from that person, you know, at a discount, our discounts much different because we're levered off of the off of the unpaid balance as opposed to the actual property value. So it's just really cool way you put it. I haven't heard somebody put it that way, so I like it.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Oh, thank you, it's, it's what makes us attract to the space.
Justin Bogard:So Absolutely it's fun. So you and Mike are running this investment company and are you raising private capital as well.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:So today we've done all our investments based on principal capital. As we continue to grow, buying larger and more pools, we would look to partner with other investment platforms, family offices, etc. To be able to kind of expand what we are are just a number of pools that we can buy. So right now, today, we've done all principal capital and we are we're open to the conversation of partnering with people to co invest on these pools.
Justin Bogard:That's really where you make a big. A big hit against against a taking out a tape is when you can partner with people and take down bigger, bigger loan amounts, as opposed to, you know, when I've. Since I've been started out, I I typically am buying loans around the 30,000 to about 1,000 range and since I started the fund last year, that's really what I've been able to look at assets you know higher than 100k in value and be like, oh, I can, I can buy two or three of these now and and not just you know focus on well, if I bought that one, I'd be tapped. I bought one loan, right. So it's a different ballgame when you can buy in bulk and also in higher and unpaid balance value.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Well, so, for example, we're looking at a tape right now that has 18 loans kind of UPB I'm just going to use around numbers about $4 million, looking at probably a purchase price, you know, somewhere between, I'm just gonna say, $3 million, and it's 18 loans and the average UPB on that is around $230,000.
Justin Bogard:Yeah, this is not like a lot of loans.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:There's some high dollar loans in the pool, but that's also where I think there's opportunity to be able to, you know, take down a little bit bigger pools, because there's a lot of people who play in the smaller balance space and where you get above that $150,000 UPB you know, not everybody can play in that space and it provides an opportunity for us to be able to come in and play.
Justin Bogard:You mentioned earlier about private money loans. Did I hear you say hard money loans? Is that one of the types of loans that you guys like to go after?
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:So we originate private money loans and we also will buy private money loans if other people have originated. So we will do the primary and second play, the secondary space in that specific asset class.
Justin Bogard:I'm gonna get in the weeds here. So are you. I'm talking about like a fix and flip type of loan to where they're borrowing money on a short term basis with the intention of either renegotiating the terms with you for a full amiturization of 30 years or selling the property and paying off the interest only debt. Is that the type of loan that I'm hearing, the private money that you're saying?
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:So it's a little bit of a comment. So what? When I originate a private money loan, it's usually for, let's just say, a fix and flip. I do new construction and I do land development as well, but let's just take the fix and flip, because I think it's a perfect example. Those are six. I do six month deals right. So the ten or six months.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Generally my rates are somewhere between my 10 and 12% on an annual basis, and then origination fees between two and 4%, and we I mean the, the ICOM operators or sponsors come in. We fund the purchase price as well as the rehab, because we like to be 100% of the capital structure. That allows us to kind of have a good sense of where they are in the project, how the rehab is actually progressing, and then, once the rehab is done, then it hits the market and usually our operators are very efficient. They have very defined scopes of work, very defined timelines, and so when we go into a deal we actually know what everything's supposed to look like and everything. You know. Nothing's ever perfect, Things go wrong, but just given that there is goals and objectives and and and posts that we check in on, it makes the process very efficient and our operators are very good at executing what I've had.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Deals so cool, sorry, go ahead.
Justin Bogard:No, that was a delay there, sorry, finish what you were saying.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:I was going to say we have operators that come in and there are, you know, extensive rehabs that take, you know, call it, several months to get done, and then we have some that are more cosmetic in nature and we're they're in and out in two weeks and put it back on the market. So we kind of see everything you know, from super fast rehab to getting it back on the market, to a little bit more extensive types of rehabs, and then it taking closer to the full six months and, depending on the situation, we might go a little bit longer and we just discuss that up front.
Justin Bogard:Okay, what type of skin in the game does your borrower have with these specific loans?
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Great question. So it really depends on the ARV and where they are buying the loan. We like to have a loan to value of around mid 70s and below. What I would also say, though, is that we really a lot of our operators don't have a lot of cash, and so expecting there to be a huge check of skin in the game and have them pay, you know, monthly interest, I think is unrealistic, and so a lot of times, we really end up partnering up with operators who are able to buy the properties at very attractive rates to the ARV.
Justin Bogard:Gotcha. Okay, what experience level do you require of these operators or sponsors to do these projects and to get loans with you?
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:So we are not the lender for everybody. We are not. We don't, we don't go around, and you know I don't do a ton of marketing. Really, people who come to us are through word of mouth, and and because it's through word of mouth, people who we have done business with know our diligence approach as well as what we look for in projects, and so, as you know, our names get out there and people meet and are introduced to us. They also kind of understand what they're getting into, and so we look for operators to have some experience in this space. We look for them to have.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:What's most important is that either they themselves are doing the work or that they have teams that they've worked with and done projects before. That's a that's a really big one for us, because finding good service providers the trades out there that actually complete the work and do a good job, is harder than you would think and somebody who can then get the job done in a timely fashion. So that's everybody. But so we look for people who have done a couple of projects before, who have the service providers to be able to get the jobs done, and at the end of the day, we talk to everybody, whether it's on the phone call Zoom, we prefer Zoom or in person, and we really, for honest, are working people.
Justin Bogard:Vanessa, are you still there?
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Yeah, sorry, it was coming in and out.
Justin Bogard:I'm in a hotel, yeah, that's okay. I'm here, I think yeah, I figure your Wi-Fi is probably spotty at times. I think that, if I could paraphrase what you were saying, you're looking for people that just just are honest and transparent, they're hardworking and they, they just you know that they're going to get the job done. My follow up question to that was going to be do you let them do multiple projects with you or with other lenders at the same time? And if, if yes, how many do you allow them to do? Because I'm sure at some point they get strung out. As far as you know, they're burning the candle at both ends, so to speak, and do you recognize that point?
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Absolutely. That's something we talk about in front. So when we're talking to, no, I can hear me.
Justin Bogard:Okay, yeah, yeah, can you hear me?
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Okay, Sorry about that. So that is one of the questions. When we are first being introduced to new sponsors, we ask them like how many projects can you take on at one time? Where do you think you would be at full capacity? And then also understanding the type of projects that they are on. So, for example, if they're doing all new construction, that's a lot more intense type of work and I know that they're not going to be able to handle, call it, 10 projects at one time. If they're rehabs, they're across the street. Okay, you can do a lot more than that of those.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:And so it's really situational at the end of the day, and a lot of times my borrowers I'm doing a lot of their projects they like our approach, they like our diligence, and what I was trying to say a little bit earlier is that, yes, we are the private money lender, but we really look at it as we are your financing partner. I put on my Chief Investment Officer hat on and I walked through the projects with them. I show them how I've calculated my numbers and what their returns will look like on their base case from an ARV perspective. I run downside cases and I run upside cases and I'm like this is what the numbers look like. Is there enough for you to feel engaged enough on this project? And so we have those discussions and one of my biggest things is we want to make sure that there's enough juice for them, at the end of the day, to stay focused.
Justin Bogard:Yeah, I like the way that you approach the private money, the slash hard money, the way you originate the loans and, quite frankly, I don't think a lot of lenders do the extensive diligence that they need to.
Justin Bogard:You know, some of these newer fix and flip folks come into our space and they look at lenders and they're like scratching their head, going like why are their rates so high? Why are they asking for such low LTVs? And for all the reasons that you explain, your diligence with underwriting these projects is exactly the reason why. Because you have to protect yourself, especially when you're doing many of these loans at the same time, because they can all start going bad, especially if they're in the same concentrated area and the real estate kind of flips upside down for a little bit. You definitely want to give yourself some protection. So if you guys are out there thinking about doing hard money loans the way that Vanessa is describing it, the way that she walks through it, is the way that's your, that's like the baseline you need to also find ways to make sure that to protect yourself in other ways too, you know, for your whole portfolio. So, yeah, I really don't think a lot of lenders are as diligent as you guys are.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Well, that's something we pride ourselves on and that's what I say. We're not the lender for everybody, because if our partners don't see the value in our diligence approach and how thorough we are, then ultimately we know when something goes wrong. We're not going to probably have a rational conversation at the end of the day to try to find a solution. And we've had some interesting things happen over the years and what we found is that our borrowers have been very rational and, as a result, we have been rational back right. It is not all about us just being the lender and saying you have to. You have to only abide by the terms on the paper. We're going to come up with a solution that works for everybody, because one of our biggest things is we want repeat borrowers, we want people that understand our underwriting, we want people that we trust, and so let's do it again and again, and again. And if our borrowers see us as just transactional, we want relationship-based borrowers and that's really important to us.
Justin Bogard:Yeah, you said it before, I said it out loud, but I was thinking the same thing you were. It's a repeat customer. Once you set up a repeat customer, that becomes a profitable customer because it's far less time to interview them in the beginning. You can skip a lot of that stuff up front and go straight to the project and get to the meat of the numbers and go okay, yes, this one works, this one doesn't. And then you have a track record with that person and be like yeah, I know they've done a couple of deals. They did a couple of deals with me. It's different than them just doing a couple of deals, you know, in general with a couple of people.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:So I fully agree with the way you approach that.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:It makes a difference. I just had a borrower. We did a deal in early 2022. The deal went well, everything went good, hadn't heard from them in a while and then, all of a sudden, I get a you know a phone call to express the email I have a deal. Are you still lending money? Can you know? Can, can you act quickly? I'm like, absolutely, you know what I do. Let's, let's send me the information and let's go to it. And within they reached out to me Thursday evening. By Friday morning I already had a commitment letter out to them so they were able to send to their you know seller so that they can, you know, agree to the terms and get the track contract signed, so that and that's a bit of that relationship right, and that we can move. We can move more quickly than most and and, as a result, you know, there people find value in that.
Justin Bogard:Absolutely. I'm sure you guys also originate just owner occupied homes as well not as much just because we are the private lender there's.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:We don't take, we don't take ownership of the homes, but when things don't go right and they do we do. We have taken possession of homes and we, once we take possession of the homes, doing seller finances clearly one strategy that we employ, and have done so.
Justin Bogard:What do you typically like to see on a seller finance deal where its owner occupied for skin in the game?
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:So at least 10%. But what I would also say is that we try to be creative as well, right, one of the things that we I think the seller finance market rate is they're non-qualified people, right, they can't go to the bank and go get a loan, and so a lot of times those are business owners of trades and everything, and for us we really we like that borrower. Why? Yeah, because they're hard-working, they're honest people, right. Those that goes back to, you know, the same people we support on the origination side, and so, from that perspective, we like to see that they have a consistency of jobs. We like to see who's living in the house, you know.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:And then we also like to see is there family around? Do they have family in the city that they're in, telling us a little bit more about who the borrower is? And then, from a you know, just a pure financial perspective, we usually see financial statements from, or bank account statements from, their business and then personally. And the other thing that we find we don't necessarily because we don't do a ton of these I don't have them are mellowed, but we do have them serviced and and I think that's really critical from a servicing perspective to have it professionally serviced. I still reach out to our borrower when they haven't paid, but having the servicer there as is really critical what is the fastest?
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:oh, sorry, sorry one one other thing I do want to highlight. So a lot of times, because these, these individuals do not have consistency, we go into it knowing that it's not going to be a steady as a normal you know, qualified mortgage, yeah, and so what we look to do is also see what other assets can they pledge in support of the loan. So, for example, on one of our homes they were gonna finish the rehab on the house and they were going to live in their RV that they were able to get connected at the home. So we have title to the RV as well as a mortgage filed, and so it's just and extra support and because the person couldn't put down as much as we wanted, we took that. We had a we structured as the first and second lean. The RV supports both leans, but the intent is that when they're done with the home, on the renovation they've moved in, is to sell the RV and those proceeds would pay off.
Justin Bogard:The second link sense and then we got extra assets right extra assets all the time and don't forget to get those, to get those titles on those vehicles and RVs oh yeah oh yeah, it needs to be in your possession what was gonna ask is I'm curious to know what is the fastest on your private money loans that you do for your fix and flippers, what's the fastest that you've ever had it funded and then and then back to you completed mature?
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:actually I had one last week. I set money out on Wednesday, it got repaid on Friday so that's almost like a transactional money at that point right, that was transaction.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:But I've also done stuff, many, many, many deals with these borrowers and they had. They had somebody on the back end to buy it and they just needed. It was effectively a back-to-back, but the title company required them to close fully on the purchase and then have a day and then have the second closing a day after, and so the title company was really driving on why it wasn't actually saying a same-day transaction. Outside of that, I've had some land that we, that we funded and that closed call early December and by end of December I've been paid off.
Justin Bogard:That's pretty cool it's, it can go quickly that business in general is something I kind of wanted to tinker with. Richard and I had done a couple of deals like that before and we was looking at ourselves like man. I wish we could have like five or six these lined up every month and just be in and out in a couple of days.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:That's, that's like a lenders dream right there it is, but I would also say it's not. It's not, it's 90, it's caught. 5% of the portfolio, right, like most of it is not that way and I would. I would also say that these are replete borrowers, right? So some of these are sizes that I normally don't play in, right? But they bought the house, they it was essentially you're really buying the land and to flip it, and so those aren't the types of transactions that we normally lend on, but it's relationship based, and our borrowers come in and say, hey, would you do this? Of course let's do it, and actually we are quite supportive. You know, a lot of times they come in and they say we have contract. I've done this with one of the borrowers where they got a contract.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:We talked about what it would take to do the rehab and they said will you give us a month to see if we can sell it? Because we have too many projects and we'd like to see if we could just do a you know a mode, what's called it like a whole, hold it. And so what we did is, again, we try to be creative from a structuring perspective. So what we said is, for the first month, try to sell it, and if you don't sell it, then we'll kick in the rehab loan at that point and then we'll go from there Still keeping the six months right.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:So the rehab had to be something done quickly. Ultimately. They had thought they had a buyer within the month. They fell through right at the end of the month and then we flipped into the rehab portion of the loan and they're actually working on it right now and I should be getting my last draw request on that probably this week. And so we try again. We try to be creative, and that's where that relationship aspect is super important Listening to what our borrowers need and then thinking how can we be responsive. That makes it a win-win for everybody.
Justin Bogard:Vanessa, quickly, where are you doing these rehabs at? Is it just basically at a DFW, or?
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:It's a great question. So we are in the DFW area, that's where we live and we like the DFW area, so a lot of our operators are in the DFW area, but we will do private money loans throughout the state of Texas.
Justin Bogard:Okay, and then how can we get a hold of? How do you guys?
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:So I can share my contact information. But the best is to email operations at all of dashcovecom. That reaches everybody on the team and just to make sure that we get back to you guys.
Justin Bogard:So that's that was operations at all of olive-covecom.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:That's exactly right.
Justin Bogard:All right, olaclecom. All right, Vanessa, we are out of time today. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. This is episode number five, season six, of the VDK be the bank broadcast podcast. My gosh, my tongue is all tied today. So yeah, thanks for being on. This has been an awesome little conversation today and I really enjoyed the private money conversation that we had on the underwriting. That was pretty fun.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:Absolutely. Thank you for having me. It's been fun.
Justin Bogard:All right, you're welcome. We'll catch you guys on the next episode, if I can get my mouth to work correctly. Oh, there we go.
Vanessa Gomez LaGatta:All right, see you guys Bye, thank you.
Narrator:Thanks for listening to Be the Bank. We hope you learned something from today's show. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us. Plus, check out our channel on YouTube and follow us on Facebook and Twitter at Be the Bank, and on Instagram at Be the Bank podcast. Be the Bank is sponsored by American note buyers. Thanks again for listening.
